Flat Rate Movers Ltd

Approval Rate: 78%

78%Approval ratio

Reviews 49

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  • by

    brett5201

    Wed Feb 10 2010

    I 100% would recommend flatrate for anyones move. Upon booking my move, my salesperson Joe was extremely helpful. He even offered to look at a competitors quote to see if there were any loopholes. When my move actually took place they movers were extremely nice, making my move easy and efficient. I would definitely use flatrate for my next move and highly recommend them. Brett

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    karps1

    Sun Jan 31 2010

    I want to commend the FLATRATE team on an EXCELLENT job moving all my belongings from NYC to DC (in the snow!) Great crew, and Hector in particular is a powerhouse as well as friendly and professional. It was a pleasure. Thank you!

  • by

    sharongood

    Sun Jan 31 2010

    The movers from start to finish were with out exception , reliable, on time from N.Y.. to Fla, most pleasent ,ans. all our questions and concerns. We would recommend Flat Rate services to anyone looking to move that is searching for a company that makes you feel comfortable and secure .A plus five stars Sharon and Tommy G

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    dquijano71

    Sat Jan 30 2010

    I would like to thank David Oknin for executing such flawless great customer satisfaction. He was very quick, knowledgeable and well grounded, he made sure to contact me with answers to all of the questions I had. Made sure all was taken care of on their end 100%. As for the team he sent over that day was yet again AMAZING, Oscar and his team were such great help. I would have not been able to have not done it without their help. Like I told them I would ask for them anytime of the day for their amazing help. They really worked hard like a team should work. Again Thank You so much for all your assistance, I was so satisfied 100% with everything and I would def refer them to everyone and their mother... David and Oscar THANK YOU AGAIN FOR MAKING MY MOVE ON MY NEW HOME A GREAT ONE.... YOU GUYS ROCK ..... Thank You, David A. Quijano Creative Visual Merchandising Manager

  • by

    scottgordo2077_969509

    Wed Jan 27 2010

    FRANK CUEVAS WAS EXCELLENT ON THE PHONE WITH IMFORMATION AND BEAT THE OTHER MOVER'S FEE BY A CONSIDERABLE AMOUNT. MOVERS PICKED UP AND DELIVERED ON TIME AS PROMISED. I WOULD DEFINETLY USE THIS COMPANY AGAIN.

  • by

    jkjdkc1

    Tue Jan 26 2010

    the two gentleman who moved a very very large sectional couch from NYC to Westchester for me where determined to get the thing down the stairs when it did not fit. They took molding off the doorframe, and removed the door to get the job done. The move was done in the worst pouring rain fall we have had in months. It all worked out well. David Oknin was particularly helpful in coordinating the move.

  • by

    jay5211

    Sun Jan 24 2010

    FlatRate moving company lost 5 boxes of personal belongings/furniture along with a lot of damage to many, many pieces of furniture including antique and vintage items and electronics. I paid extra for insurance of $5,000. I received notice that my insurance claim was denied and the company is issuing a 'courtesy' check of $150.00. This is totally unacceptable. In addition, the Customer Service Representative was rude when I called upset over my losses and claim denial. She completely lacked sensitivity and remorse regarding everything that was damaged and lost. Although I paid for $5,000 worth of insurance, she advised me that I did not take out enough insurance!? In addition, the quality of service was so bad, this was probable cause for the damages and lost items. On the day of the move, the drivers arrived 3 hours late. We were told that there would be 4 movers; we only saw two - the Foreman and one inexperienced young man who did most of the move by himself, as the foreman ran up... Read more

  • by

    adelegardi_1277373016

    Tue Jan 19 2010

    I recently used Flat Rate to move from California to DC. On average, I move once every 18 mos, so I'm pretty familiar with the whole routine. My experience with Flat Rate was gravely disappointing for a few reasons: a) The charged nearly $400 more than the quoted price, b) they delivered our stuff a week late, c) they lost two of our boxes, and d) they have not responded to any of my attempts to try to find our lost stuff.

  • by

    tpm19751

    Sat Jan 16 2010

    This was my first time using Flat Rate and I'd certainly use them again. The coordination was painless and the moving team were both courteous and professional. 5 Stars no doubt.

  • by

    mrl1ac17

    Sat Jan 16 2010

    I have used Flat Rate Movers several times now and have never been disappointed. My move from New York to California took less than a week and everything arrived with no complaints. The staff was extremely kind and helpful, especially Ina in the New York office. I highly recommend Flat Rate for your next move.

  • by

    mayw13ba

    Tue Jan 12 2010

    Coming from a career military family with numerous moves (including Hawaii and Turkey), I feel qualified to speak on the subject of movers. I was very pleased working with Douglas Tam in a 2007 move within NYC and again in 2009 from Manhattan to Washington, D.C. Both times Douglas was very accessible re my concerns and presented competitive rates. The door-to-door move to DC was even more outstanding than the first; the movers were professional, hardworking and took great care with my belongings. To save money I packed my belongings. But if I could always work with Douglas and have the same movers to load and drive my goods, I wouldn't stress out and feel confident that the move would go smoothly. I give a sincere shout out to FlatRate's Douglas Tam, who after coordinating two moves to my high satisfaction, must be the real deal.

  • by

    zeuss111

    Tue Jan 12 2010

    Moving is a major DRAG! Flaterate made it a pleasure. Frank, my sales Rep, thank you and many thanks to the crew of Truck #30. This is a great moving company. We run our own business so we might be a bit more critical than most and Flatrate did not disappoint us at all. They are professional, amiable, quick, reliable and communication was excellent. I highly recommend Flaterate, ask for Frank although I'm sure all of their Reps are good, and see for yourselves. This is the place to go for a trouble free move.

  • by

    edmariec1

    Sun Jan 10 2010

    This was the best moving experience I had in NYC. I didn't do any packing before hand and these guys showed up, took charge and moved me out of my existing place in a matter of a few hours, and had everything up and unpacked in my new place by 2pm. It definitely made my life so much easier. . .as you all know, moving in NYC is a royal pain. . .I would 100% use these guys again.

  • by

    birdreview

    Sun Jan 03 2010

    I needed to move on New Year's Eve, possibly moving out on the 31st. and into my new place on the 1st.(requiring an overnight storage ). Flatrate was quick to respond and assist with my needs. E-mail communication was timely, and the service was top-notch. Ask for Dean Hadzi, one of their moving consultants, who is quite helpful, and stays in contact until your move is complete. No regrets, Kurt, NYC

  • by

    marteeny86

    Sun Nov 15 2009

    Flat Rate seemed appealing to us because they guaranteed a flat rate with no additional fees. We came to an agreement with Flat Rate for a fee and a pick up and delivery on a Thursday. After they got our credit card information, they called and asked if it could instead be picked up Thursday and delivered Friday. We agreed. Then they asked if they could pick up Fri and deliver Sat. We agreed again. Then they changed the Saturday time - two more times, we agreed to both. They asked AGAIN to change it to the morning, and our building was unable to accommodate that ONE time. Then they asked if they could pick up Saturday and deliver Sunday night. After we told them this is not possible, they told us if we wanted any of the original dates we agreed on we would have to pay extra. They avoided our phone calls, said they would return our calls and never did, and took days to get back to us between each new move in time. They pulled a typical bait and switch. They jerked us around for a week ... Read more

  • by

    ka100161

    Wed Sep 30 2009

    FlatRate is the worst company you could hire, bottom line. Below is the email that I wrote them after my move-in process went completely awry. It has gone absolutely unanswered. Yet, another reason why EVERYONE should steer clear of this company. "Dear FlatRate, Unfortunately, I'm writing to you to express my sincere dissatisfaction with the FlatRate moving company. Never in my life have I been more compelled to send a letter of complaint. I scheduled your service for a move on ___ and was assured that the service would arrive within hours between 8am and 10am. At 9am, when a truck and movers had not arrived at my apartment and, more importantly, I had not been communicated with, I called your offices and was told to wait until 10am and surely a truck and the movers would arrive by then. At 10am, the truck and movers did not arrive and I had heard NOTHING. I understand that problems occur and in Manhattan drivers are sometimes faced with traffic or issues that are beyond their contro... Read more

  • by

    serins1

    Mon Sep 28 2009

    I was extremely satisfied with my move using Flat Rate. The crew was on time, worked quickly and was extremely helpful. My relocation consultant, Robin was on top of things and made sure that everything was in order. She was also very patient with whatever changes there may have been. I will definitely think about using Flat Rate again in the future if the need arises... Serina

  • by

    laurelzabe

    Sun Aug 16 2009

    Don't use Flatrate, which should be called Fatrate / FlatFurniture. They were very nice on the phone and they were on time for the move itself. But unfortunately everything else was a disaster. They broke my bed in their storage facility. They broke my dresser. They broke my bedside table. The bed and table are beyond repair. They packed all of these items themselves. Now they want to pay me $0.60 per lb. They "included" extra insurance for my move into storage and then tried to charge me for it again on the way out. The storage prices were outrageous and the moving fees were a moving target. They even wanted to charge me to throw away the furniture they destroyed. I have moved cross country 4 times - I have moved 9 times in the last 10 years and I have never had to work with such an incompetent and gouging moving company. I had heard horror stories about movers in NYC, but the last 4 moves here have been no problem. This time I was moving from NY to NJ so I wanted to us... Read more

  • by

    keka231

    Thu Aug 06 2009

    Save your time and money and DO NOT use Flatrate. My move was a rather small one (moved from a studio into a 1 bedroom) and STILL they managed to lose 2 boxes and break some of my dinnerware which they packed. I paid for this service since they told me if I pack it the wouldn't be responsible. They were reckless, rude and SLOW!!! My move was supposed to be done by 5pm but they finished close to 7pm for which the building charge me and when I complained to Flatrate they told me that they weren't responsible! Even though I told them about my hours. Its not worth the money OR aggravation! A total disgrace! And also the claim is not going through because the damage is less than $500. I don't know how they got away with this for so long.

  • by

    lisa3411

    Tue Aug 04 2009

    I was recommended to FLATRATE MOVING and I was reluctant to pay top dollars but than in the end I did. They also told me that it would NOT exceed the original cost that they gave me but then to my surprise it did. It is just so frustrating that after all these confirmation emails and also after they did the inventory survey in my apartment and they still charged me about 20% more. It says on the truck FLATRATE??????? My stuff was going to my storage and they threw my stuff the quickest they could WITHOUT ANY protection after I was assured by the a very charming sales guy that it would. I was trying to reach him to help me before it gets any worse and they kept switching me to the dispatchers who apparently couldn't help me. After seeing what my furniture went through they had the audacity to tell me that the gratuity was mandatory. I thought going with the company that has been around for quite some time I would be OK, but I guess not. FLATRATE proved me wrong. The overall expe... Read more

  • by

    shillard1

    Fri Jul 24 2009

    My previous move (not with Flat Rate) was terrible! Not only did they increase their rate once my stuff was all loaded on the truck but they damaged and lost a bunch of my stuff. I filed a claim and was awarded a settlement, but by that time the company was already bankrupt and out of business. Sooo, I was very skeptical of moving companies but went with Flat Rate based on a friend's recommendation. I dealt with Craig Yettra who was EXTREMELY helpful. He was friendly and professional and answered all my paranoid questions with remarkable patience and understanding. He assured me that my rate would indeed be flat, and it was! The crew who did the packing and moving (Sam and Sophian, I think) were also amazing- very fast, friendly, and careful. I could not have been more pleased with this move and will use Craig and Flat Rate for every move I have going forward!

  • by

    citymouse11331_686193

    Sun Jul 19 2009

    Spoke with representative Robin several times and readjusted quotes as needs, items and dates changed. Painless process. Great customer service and communication. Movers came on time, got right down to business, moved 1 bedroom apartment ( boxed up already by me except a few pieces of furniture ) from Brooklyn to Paterson NJ, had to take Manhattan Streets to GW bridge because of Triboro bridge closure. They where still done by 12:00 noon. Items arrived safe and unharmed. Movers took care of my mediocre belongings as of they where antiques. NIcely done flat rate team.

  • by

    gamblej211

    Sun Jul 12 2009

    During the move I had to e-mail a number of times to change my order, Dean Hadzi was one the best customer service rep's I have dealt with. They turned up early and helped me move a number of things ready for the move. They wrapped everything with care, no damages, and SO FAST. From UWS - Hoboken it took them 2.5 hours to move a full 1 bed apartment to a house. They also took storage items. The team who turned up were the sweetest bunch of guys and it made the move actually fun !!!

  • by

    arodin1

    Fri Jul 10 2009

    Wonderful experience from beginning to end. I worked with Matt Ockers who was incredibly kind and helpful. He answered all of my questions and did everything he could to ensure the price stayed within my budget. The moving crew was professional, skilled and quick. A+ service all in all! Will definitely use them again for my next move!

  • by

    jflatrate1

    Thu Jul 09 2009

    Flat rate is very responsive prior to move and very professional and quick at the actual move. Jody

  • by

    meghp1

    Thu Jul 09 2009

    I moved twice in New York and the first time I was quoted for $600 and it ended up being $1400 at the end of the day. The second time I used Flat Rate Moving and the quote they gave me over the phone was the exact amount I paid the day of moving, which was a relief.

  • by

    jeremypops

    Thu Jul 09 2009

    I recently moved between apartments in NYC, from a walk-up building to one with an elevator, which necessitated hiring a moving company that was properly accredited and insured. After getting a few quotes around town, I decided on Flat Rate. I feel like I definitely made the right decision. Robin, the customer service person who helped me set up the move, was most helpful (although the putting on hold for a quote, as mentioned by some others, is a bit tiring). The true stars of the move were the crew: Johnathan, Darwin, and Carlos (I name them because I think you can request a specific crew). I was unable to be there on the day of the move and it was left to my wife to hold down the fort. Not only were the crew professional and responsible, but there were no shifty attempts to rustle more cash, as some movers are wont to do. The load out at our old apartment took longer than was expected and left us with only one hour of elevator time at the new place. However, the crew worked at light... Read more

  • by

    mister4000

    Mon Jul 06 2009

    I move a lot, and I have had awful experiences with both local and nationally recognized companies, who often charge thousands of dollars in frivolous surcharges and make threats when you don't pay them in cash on the spot. It's a dirty business, full of crooks. That's when I reached out to FlatRate movers. I have used FlatRate to move from Los Angeles to New Jersey, and then again to move from New Jersey to New York City, and now again to move from New York City back to New Jersey. Every single time, they have been stellar in every respect. Their crew is always very professional, extremely courteous, quick, and careful when packing and moving items. Their prices are competitive, and in the end, you will pay less because they don't squeeze you for lots of extras like all the other moving companies. Also they don't break things in their rush to complete the job like other movers, which also saves you money. Plus they take credit cards, unlike those sketchy movers who require ca... Read more

  • by

    teresanbro

    Sun Jun 28 2009

    I can't tell you how helpful Flat Rate Movers were. The crew they sent over was excellent, fast and they took care of my belongings as if they were their own. My move was easy and painless. There were no hidden fees or surprises with the cost of my move, everything went as advertised and explained to me by my representative. I recommend Flat Rate Movers to anyone in the area that is moving! Teresa Brooks

  • by

    kw19731

    Sun Jun 28 2009

    This was the single worst moving experience of my 18 years in the city. Yes they were on time. However the packing job done at the pick up by the foreman left a $500.00 chair worthless. The problem - he packed it unwrapped in a box with a wrought iron table completely damaging the finish on the wood chair. At first he denied it -said it was like that when he picked up. Then he said "it would come off with water." Then he admitted he packed it poorly. Problem - insurance deductible is $500 so if you opt for insurance and a screw up like this happens, youre liable regardless. So the overall charge was an additional $500 to us, not the "Flat Rate" promoted by the company. They attempted to pay us off with a $100 courtesy check. We cashed it and will talk trash about them as often as possible. Simply sloppy, discourteous employees with no sense of customer service whatsoever

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    samc1d57

    Sun Jun 28 2009

    In my search for a mover, I contacted various companies in Manhattan. After days of research, I narrowed my search down to two companies both who sent representatives to my apartment for a survey. It was extremely important to me that I get a true “flat rate” company because I have had experiences where I’m quoted one price and then on the day of the move, I’m charged more. Flat Rate Moving outbid the second company and promised me my fee was a true “flat rate.” My representative, Craig, was not only professional, he went above and beyond to insure my move was as stress free as possible. The crew arrived at my apartment promptly on moving day and handled every piece of furniture with extreme care. The team was fast, efficient and detail oriented. They went above and beyond to ensure I was happy and even packed some additional wardrobe boxes for free. It was a pleasure working with everyone at Flat Rate Moving and I highly recommend them. The actual moving process was the least str... Read more

  • by

    hautesecs1

    Tue Jun 16 2009

    Jeez, what's the big deal with a little negotiating, this is new york baby. Seems bizarre that people write reviews that didn't even use the company, so what if you have to do a little haggling, move back to the mid west already. A really cool british guy came to my house (seemed a little over dressed for mover!) and was the least pushy moving guy i ever met, explained the process clearly without over selling and was very very efficient. I wanted a better price, he gave me one. The move went very well with no hiccups at all. The customer service people called me to ask if things were going well. I don't understand the bad reviews here, these guys have become probably the largest in the city, you have to do something right to make that happen. I've lived here for 12 years and moved 6 or 7 times, and lets face it, moving is hardly fun, but flatrate made it creamy and smooth, so much better than all my previous bait and switch experiences.

  • by

    kchatz131

    Mon Jun 15 2009

    Amazing job by my movers and amazing job by Craig Yettra for organizing. I had a unique situation and they were very accomidating.. Katie

  • by

    fadetogrey

    Sun Jun 14 2009

    The movers were hard working, friendly, yet professional. These particular movers that were assigned to my move work very well together. They were also very patient and understanding of various moving situations. I would recommend them to anyone and would not hesitate to use these guys again.

  • by

    dory11231

    Sun Jun 14 2009

    Flat Rate Moving made such a stressful situation so much easier! I think moving is quite possibly one of the worst things a person can do, but Craig (x 243!) was so helpful and got me an AMAZING rate on my move and storage. During the actual move, everything went so smoothly--they arrived on time and packaged my furniture with such care...this is the second time I have moved with Flat Rate (and Craig!!) and will never consider another company! Dory

  • by

    anely1

    Thu Jun 11 2009

    I've heard of many moving companies horror stories...but I'm happy to say this one wasn't one of those! Travis and his guys arrived 30 mins early and right away started working...all my furniture was carefully wrapped and it arrived in pristine condition at my new apartment. I highly recommend Flat Rate!

  • by

    lbsny1

    Tue Jun 09 2009

    Flat Rate provided a great moving experience for moving my office out of the City to New Jersey then again within New Jersey a couple years later. This past experience was great. From the sales associate Craig Yettra to the moving crew headed up by Ramone, they were consummate professionals that got the job done quickly, efficiently and with the least amount of disruption possible to my business.

  • by

    laurencrab

    Mon Jun 08 2009

    After getting price quotes from various moving companies, FlatRate was able to work with me to reach a rate that I thought was very fair. Max was a competent and helpful contact and advised me on the logistics of making a smooth move well beyond his duties as a moving company agent. He went out of his way to give me packing advice (get free boxes from the local liquor store; pack dishes vertically for the best protection), worked with his supervisor to get me a competitive rate (while still fighting to get me free wardrobe boxes to protect my beloved clothes), and advised me on weather conditions for my moving day to boot. I would recommend FlatRate to anyone who needs to make a move and Max in particular as the best ally in the moving business.

  • by

    ttlike1

    Sun Jun 07 2009

    so far so good. Their costomer service is nice.

  • by

    chmnyc1

    Sat Jun 06 2009

    the movers took their time with all of my articles and were always letting me know of the progress of the move. The were respectful of all of my goods and also of the buildings management and rules at both the building I was leaving and also moving into. Wonderful people and service. The Best!!!

  • by

    yahoomembe

    Fri Jun 05 2009

    I have moved with Flat Rate 3 times...my specialist in the NY office, every time, was Craig Yettra. Both Flat Rate and Craig made my moves easy, fast and affordable!!

  • by

    harrisnyc1

    Wed Jun 03 2009

    My move with Flat Rate went flawlessly. The team was professional, efficient and pleasant. Ask for Craig when you call (ext. 243) and ask from Ramone’s team to move you. THEY WERE THE ABSOLUTE BEST!! My overall experience with Flat Rate was the best moving experience I have had. After being a customer of Oz for several moves, it's safe to say that I will be using Flat Rate from now on.

  • by

    dbstyles163256_3078

    Sun Apr 05 2009

    Not a Good Service. We have used them several times in the past after they changed owners. The salesman came and did an on site estimate and sold us on their "Elite" moving service. They sell this as their premier service with the "best movers". He sold us on the idea that they would take care of our items - some expensive furniture, electronics, etc - don't worry we will take care of it all." Then the day of the move.... They showed up late by almost an hour. I was slightly annoyed by this as they did not call and I had to hunt them down on the phone to see where they were. Two of the three "Elite" movers actually worked while the other dragged along. They took over twice as long as we were told it would take to just pack the truck. They did a half assed job packing the furniture and one guy kept moving things that would take two people by himself - sliding items down the stairs. I finally had to start making extra trips for them to get some of the furniture loaded. Good thi... Read more

  • by

    jvronquill

    Thu Apr 02 2009

    I've used them twice and both experiences were flawless. First move was from Manhattan to Brooklyn - everything arrived in perfect condition. second move was from Brooklyn to Miami Beach, FL. Move was flawless again! They packed up the entire apartment and unpacked down in Florida. They flew down the foreman of the move and made sure we were taken care of. I HIGHLY recommend them!!! I would use them again!

  • by

    tsteyn1

    Sun Mar 22 2009

    I have been a FlatRate customer for some time now. Everyone was on time, from the sales manager to quote to the movers. They showed flexibility as I was uncertain of which day the moved would take place. I got calls from the office following up on a regular basis to firm up a move date. They issued the necessary insurance certificates and filed them with both the move-out and move-in buildings and they delivered packing materials prior to move day. I opted for the service where they pack up the kitchen. I just wish they had used less paper. I moved out of an elevator building into a 4th floor walk up and not once did I hear the moving staff complain about the stairs. The move supervisor discussed the entire move plan with me before we began and went about disassembling and assembling furniture - he was an absolute pro and he kept his crew moving. A dispatch supervisor stopped by on the day to check to on things and to make sure all was going to plan. The only negative is that a coupl... Read more

  • by

    loveitsunn

    Sat Mar 14 2009

    If you really care about your furniture, don't use Flatrate! We recently moved from NYC to San Diego and had to deal with extensive damage, negligence which resulted in loss of two moving boxes (here goes your favorite cloth!), and misleading information which caused the insurance company not to pay for part of the damage. Flatrate refused to offer a partial refund for all the trouble and loss (and there was plenty) and was not willing to accept responsibility. And although we liked the all-in-one price, we didn't like the dirty, disgusting, fluid stained blankets in which they wrapped parts of our furniture. Overall, a most disappointing experience that resulted in substantial monetary loss despite extra insurance. Flatrate is not even worth a single star!

  • by

    allisonb55

    Thu Feb 26 2009

    This was hands-down the smoothest move experience we've ever had- and my husband and I have both moved extensively in the US and internationally. We were especially impressed with the professionalism of the movers themselves; they were thorough and efficient as well as courteous. We'd like to note that German (the foreman) was particularly helpful and patient, and we were extremely pleased with how he ran the move from start to finish. We even made a packing error and had to visit our new "home" in storage at the company NJ storage facility and all the staff there was very accommodating to our last-minute requests. We feel very confident that whatever the corner of the globe we need to have our items shipped to in the future, FlatRate will deliver. Thanks again.

  • by

    joe2211

    Mon Feb 23 2009

    I would highly recommend Flatrate above all of the other moving services in the city. First of all, when the closing of our apartment was delayed by a couple of days and we had to postpone our arrangements, their super friendly staff really took care of all our needs. The move itself was also a breath of fresh air. They packed up and moved us seamlessly and for the value of the service we received it was worth every penny! We will definitely use them again!

  • by

    nyfl1226

    Wed Feb 11 2009

    Flatrate Moving was fine for our local move but beyond HORRIBLE for our long distance NY-FL move. The NY-FL move involved a lot of furniture ? Flatrate packed it up themselves per their own requirements. We packed the smaller items. Much of the furniture that Flatrate packed was DESTROYED (the delicate china that we packed ourselves was fine): solid marble table chipped, mahogany captain?s chairs completely broken, antique tables crushed beyond repair (they were stuffed into the truck underneath heavier items so of course they were crushed), cherry bedroom headboard soggy from a leaky truck or storage facility, sewing machine damaged ? I could go on and on. It was a nightmare. They brought the items in 2 shipments (not what we contracted for ? it should have all arrived at once), they did not re-assemble my furniture as promised, and the movers were unapologetic (?You?re not gonna like this? as they unloaded broken piece after broken piece of furniture?). In the interest of fairness I ... Read more

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