Health Care

Katie Couric was the news tonight featuring nearly 100 people on the Transplant list that have been dropped because of state health care cuts. Three have already died! All I can say is if you want to drink your liver to oblivion or have some misfortunate illness you had better move to Canada!

I opposes any government attempt to take over the health care system and I believes that the costs of health care are out of control and that free market-based reform is needed.

I supports a system in which each individual privately manages his or her own health care, free from government control and interference; I believes that by allowing more competition in the health care industry, supply can be increased and costs lowered.

Long over due. Why the US was the "last" industrialized country to make healthcare affordable for it's society is beyond me. I don't know about you, but I'm not a big fan of getting the insurance company "run around" and denial. Meanwhile, some fat cat exec at State Farm sits on his fat ass in some air-conditioned office, bragging about his new Mercedes Benz, while making $10 million a year. Kind of makes you wonder why your bill is so high doesn't it.

Updated 03/30/2010 Hey the Constitution is a piece of paper that was put in place for the right reason! Times change and so do people. (as does law!) Just as the Bible is a standard for the Christians. So is the Constitution for the American people!!! As the times move on and the langue & law changes, so will the WORKING constitution! Healthcare reform is facing the same problem as when Taxes were introduced to this country and were deemed unconstitutional and illegal!!! How has the healthcare/insurance been serving the constitution legally for the people? It hasn’t and allot of people have either gone without or died! Is that right????? I'm not a believer in free healthcare for all but I do believe in equality of healthcare!!! That is what I feel the bill is trying to attempt to do!!

Updated 03/23/2010 Now I understand that a few believe that the current system is better than the alternative, but just one question to all those who oppose; Can you afford your insurance at the mo? I personally feel that this really has nothing to do with healthcare as most agree that the current system is crap, but this is more about the dislike of the President and his party!!!! That I feel is an undisputed fact that is very sad a tragic!!! Yes I can afford inssurance and yes I pay for it. But the current system is still a rip off and I still have to pay for it right!!!!! Hmmmmmmmm ;)


Hey everyone who wants to dog National healthcare that's your constitutional right, but unless one has used it, one should refrain from commenting on it!!! The treatment you get is no different than paid insurance, the only killer with paid health care insurance is that you have to be sure that you bend over before you leave your treatment. As there are more costs for you to pay after the fact you pay an unearthly amount of money monthly!!!! ;) The lies you hear on TV are un-educated rants that have little truths about the facts. Shoot if National health was as bad as people would have you think, we are doomed!!! As it’s clear that soon many will not be able to afford the luxury of Insurance, wait a minute many don’t!! ;)

Bah, all I know is that I get to shoulder the burden of this monster that I didn't want. If any enlightened thinkers want to tell me some sunshine and lollypops fairy tale about how the rich are going pay higher taxes, you can put your lollypop in your ass right next to where congress stuck it to you with this bill. I also know full damn well that with my current level of coverage being zero, it will stay at zero until some retarded coverage mandate forces me into the system on terms I don't control. Oh, sign me the fuck up for that. Wait, don't sign me up. What's that? Fuck, now I gotta pay a fine? I have no money for that. Oh well, its off the fuckin' Gulag for numbah...

Cut through all the nonsense and general alarmist rubbish that surrounds this subject and what you get is an overdue attempt to change healthcare from a privilege to a ‘Right’.

People talk about “can we afford to pay for the 30 million who currently are not covered? But who do you think currently pays every time that person who gets sick and goes to hospital - ANSWER - WE DO through higher charges etc. So all we are doing is formalizing it - it’s not extra expense it’s just being truthful about money we already spend.

Then we get the Socialism charge. Meaningless words like "socialism' are and have been thrown around every time changes like this are proposed. Medicare was not socialism, Medicaid was not socialism, Social Security was called socialism yet each time they were called socialism by those objecting. Thankfully time has changed that view as it will with this bill.

Lastly we get to the “Your eroding my freedom” chant? True freedom is freedom from fear, freedom from injustice, freedom to say what you think. Nobody in the US is having their freedom eroded it’s just society progressing from a cave man mentality to a more caring one. Stop all this Europeanism which is taking what’s yours and giving it to others, they say "wait till somebody knocks at your door and takes your stuff" and other scaremongering rubbish, HEY, it’s never happened anywhere in western Europe or the US. Argue and debate is healthy and lets debate how to share some basic fundamentals for sure, like Health or Education, but keep the discussion in the realms of reality and not in the realms of Beck and the other luddites!

I believe America needs Health Care reform, but it needs to be done correctly. Amid the innumerable earmarks and budget cuts to Medicare, the bill isn't the ideal way to solving our national health care problems.

Not to mention that it will substantially increase the already enormous (biggest U.S. history) deficit.

I also have an problem with the fact that the bill will fund abortion. President Obama issued an executive order banning abortion funding with tax payer money, but executive orders expire from administration to administration. In other words, we will not fund abortions until Obama is out of office.

The Republicans had their time in the spotlight and now Dems are actually doing something by taking over much of the public sector (Auto, bank or home loans, student loans, and now health care).

The government is growing and so is the deficit. And let's be honest, guys, this is more than the 30 million uninsured, this is the socialization of Health Care and whether you like or not, it will drastically change our country.

in america they'll cure you fast!!!!
but if you don't have insurance they'll charge 600$ per stitch and 900$(total) to take em out

UPDATE 12/19/09: I guess I know what the debate is about now, it's about bribing senators to do the president's bidding as Senator Ben Nelson of Nebraska has been bought, assuring the 60th "aye" vote to turn our system of health care over to the government. The actual takeover (the benefits) won't happen until 2013 but the tax escalation starts immediately. My only consolation is that the idiots who supported this socialist cabal will have to live with it just as I will. God help this country.

Original Comment 11/18/2004: I'm not sure what the debate is. Some comments cover health insurance issues like the fluid percentage of uninsured, some quote infant mortality rates, longevity statistics and still others imply a moral obligation on the part of government to provide health care to each citizen, regardless of their ability to pay for it. I don't think that's a constitutionall right at least not in America. Still others call for universal health care in the mode of Sweden and Canada. I think the American people, thanks to Hillary, have rejected the idea that our government should serve as the sole provider and manager of health care, that debate seems to be moot. In the US, since the late 1950's, health insurance premiums paid through one's employer, receive favorable tax treatment, explaining how health care became illogically linked with one's employer and employment. The COBRA Act was intended to remedy that, but the overall cost of health insurance premiums prohibits most individuals from buying health insurance privately through COBRA. Americans are not likely to entrust our government with sole oversight of the enormous, gargantuan yet intricately personal behemoth of a system we trust to cure us when we're sick, and sometimes, keep us alive. It will remain a private entity, dependent on HMO's and private insurers, until peoples' trust in government officials somehow skyrockets, which seems unlikely. Now, whose kool-aid is really the poison?

Update for those of you crying Constitutional Foul:
On the Constitutionality of a Health-Care Mandate

538 response to John Lofton's question: "Where in the Constitution, sir, do you see it authorized that Congress can be involved with "health care," or fund "health care"? I am asking here about the Constitution, not any court rulings. Thank you."

Posted November 24, 2009:
In another testament to the unacceptable inequities in our broken heath care system, if you're uninsured, you're more likely to die in the ER, according to a new study released by Harvard. That's right....I said die...about 80% more likely, in fact.

Posted October 22, 2009:
Apparently rape is the latest "pre-existing condition." What's next?

Republicans aren't exactly against universal health care.

They just believe the poor should rely solely on Jesus for theirs.

UPDATE:

I'm confident that "reform" will mean greater profits for the "healthcare" industry and major insurance companies at the expense of working people, the elderly and the poor. In other words, it's business as usual in D.C.

I'm all for socialized medicine.I have friends in other countries who swear by it.I believe it should be OPTIONAL.If you don't want it,fine.However,I also believe that the whole system needs to change.Ridgewalker is 100% right in his statement that Doctors are way too beholden to the very corrupt and totally amoral Pharmaceutical and Insurance Industries.They know little or more often NOTHING about nutrition.Many of todays health problems are related to pollution,poor diet,and pesticides in the water,grain and livestock.Yet all most MDs seem to do is medicate,medicate,medicate."This pill has side effects,so take this one,and for ITs side effects take this" on ad nauseum.There are MANY conditions that can be treated safely and inexpensively with herbs and dietary/lifestyle changes.The Bottom Line is we need a much more HOLISTIC approach as well as government funding.Those jackasses who are crying "socialism" are a bunch of tools.They're being played by the Insurance and BigPharma Lobbies and other moneyed parasites who would suck the lifeblood from the working class and never give us the time of day.Isn't it ironic that to get folks to sign up for our Military they have to offer them "Socialistic" benefits,like free healthcare and housing? Hmmmmm.....

Not to be picky,but the issue is medical care-not health care.Health care is what you do for yourself,which is why a study showed that Mormons lived longer than some other groups.Before Obama,I wouldn't have rated this a 5;before this is over,we will be looking at another thousand pages as to why health care equals medical care equals global warming.

Having re-read Lena's review, I'm glad to know that I am in that "lucky" 20%.
I was in the ER twice between 03 and 07. Neither time did I have insurance. Both times the hospital knew it. In 03, when I had an emergency appendectomy, the surgeon told me that I had to stay for two more days- that he would not release me. I told him that I was leaving anyway. Surrounded by three nurses and another physician, he threw a clipboard down and said "leave then".
The only thing that "died" was my savings account.
Gee....guess I was lucky.

I don't live in the US, and I've never visited there either but I'm still sure that a government run health care system would be the way forward. Of course it will mean the funding has to come from somewhere, and that is likely to be a small increase on taxes but it will make a difference. Thinking about it I think most Americans that pay for health insurance now would just pay the tax which is unlikely to be any more than what they're already paying - they don't have to pay for their own private medical insurance on top of that if they don't want to.

I just read one example of where a government run health care system would have saved a life (http://thinkprogress.org/2009/09/25/swineflu-boehner-constituent/) and it won't be the only case like that either. If you think about the number of people in the US, a good percentage of them pay for medical insurance already; but there are those that work yet still can't afford it, or those who are unable to get work.

I know it's not a brilliant example, but from watching films and TV shows there are often times when you see people worrying how they'll be able to pay for treatment, especially if they have a long-term illness. In some of these cases you often see them having to re-mortgage their houses or to go without treatment altogether.

I've found it quite shocking to look on from the outside and to see so many people be against the chance for health care for all - it's like certain political parties are almost encouraging people to not care for others. If the whole world took that attitude could could you imagine the state the world would be in? Some would argue it's already pretty bad, but it could be an awful lot worse.

It's for these reasons I think the American health care should and HAS to change.

Extremely important.

Over the past week, I've been alarmingly disturbed by the massive amount of "propaganda" distributed by those who oppose health care reform. This has been a long struggle for America as a country, we can look back to Truman's presidency for the first indication that we as a nation need a national health care system. That was some sixty years ago and is far too long for a system of affordable health care. As I hear both sides talk, I'm reminded of what our founding fathers wrote in the Declaration of Independence, "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness." Does health care not fall under the category of "unalienable Right"? Does it not fall under "Life"? What about the "pursuit of Happiness"? Health care is not a privilege as it is now, but a right that each human being on this earth deserves. Are we as Americans too ignorant to recognize that maybe our system isn't the best? How can patients be denied the simple health care they deserve? Many people I know are denied care because of a "pre-existing condition" and it seems the insurance companies black list you if you go in for a simple test or two to determine if you have cancer. At that point they view you as a "risk" while trying to do preventive care. How is that fair? The insurance industry has had no regulation over the past that it has become out of hand. Someone must step in and make sure that the insurance companies are regulated and not in business to make money, they should be in business to ensure their members receive the quality care they deserve regardless of their condition. I'm just shocked that many people refuse to recognize this and then claim that by creating a government sponsored option that our health care system goes to pot? Are you kidding me!?! We have people in this country who are faced with the difficult decision of paying for health care or paying for a mortgage. Many choose to keep the roof over their head because they don't want to be on the street. It is our obligation as a nation to ensure that health care is available to every citizen of our country. We cannot continue to let big business control health care.

Finally, I would like to note that for approximately 85% of Americans NOTHING will change about their current health care plan. If you like it, you keep it and life goes on. If you don't currently have insurance and wish to have an affordable option, then you deserve to have it. Keep in mind no part of this legislation will change any of the other government sponsored health programs (medicaid/medicare), this is a separate option for you to consider before you qualify for these programs. Also to those who think medicare/medicaid aren't social health programs, well hello, what do you think they are? They seem to work quite well!

Go to the White House's "Fact Check" page and get the real facts for yourself here, http://www.whitehouse.gov/realitycheck/ . This video might be the best to explain the "rationing" phenomenon that is being discussed (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qn0xxjpf360). Note President Obama's explanation of Medicare.

Health care…or the as the new American buzz is called, “Universal Health Care”, is an important issue. (I know…that’s an understatement.) The issue is so complex that it is wearing the general public out. I trust doctors when it comes to basic issues, but when it comes to treating diseases, the entire medical complex is an abject failure. People here on RIA have been asking me what I have been doing for the last year or so. The answer is that I have been studying the current state of affairs of the Medical Industry and have build an enormous database on this subject. My general conclusions are:

(A) Doctors are not being trained to cure people
(B) Doctors are at the mercy of the FDA, Insurance companies, Pharmaceutical Companies, Food Companies and governments that are being controlled by them.
(C) Virtually all of the “professional medications” that are being prescribed are being produced in China, India and Puerto Rico. There is little-to-no inspection, or quality control on any of these products. IMO, this causes a potential threat to our national security.
(D) The overwhelming of our medical system with diseases that were unheard of 100 years ago can be attributed to food additives, environmental pollution, the stress that these factors cause AND the “professional medications” that treat humans like mobile experiments.

The “professional meds” are key, here, because like the other factors, they affect the most important factor in our well-being: our pH levels. This is not complicated. All food additives, processed foods (ie: white sugar, MSG, ad nauseam), stress, lethargy, etc., cause our body’s ph to drop to acid levels. This is where diseases thrive. (ask a fish with ich about the tank’s pH level). Diseases cannot grow, or thrive when our bodies are reading in the alkaline range. When we are feeling ill, we need to lower our pH slightly in order to raise our immune system to fight off the illness. But, when our body is alkaline, it is very difficult to get sick. This can be achieved through diet and supplements and learning how to control stress.

So, when a doctor prescribes a common medication, there are always side effects, the most common of which is lowering your pH level. What happens next? You return with complaints and more prescriptions are offered to deal with those complaints. These cause more complaints, and on and on. By the time the average American reaches the age of 65, they will be taking 14 different meds; the original two for the original complaints and the rest to deal with the side effects of the first two. Diabetes? Cancer? Heart disease? Almost unheard of 100 years ago. Today, they are epidemic, with trillions of dollars settling like epoxy into some of the darkest, most insidious and evil hands man has ever known.

Anyone think that Universal Health Care is gonna fix this? The under belly of the Big Pharma/Medical Complex is as ugly as child pornography slave rings and certain politicians want to force this on us. We can learn how to take control of our health. It’s a rewarding journey.

I am so done with doctors…unless I break my arm.

Maybe this is why I came back to RIA? It's a good place to share info on this subject, to those who want to listen. (and to ambush Grizz chewers)

UP DATE: Health Care is of paramount importance. The disease industry has hit critical mass in America and our President is out there selling insurance? There's a dark story behind all of this if you're interested. http://ridgesplace.blogspot.com/2008_06_29_archive. html

My playbook is called the Constitution of the United States of America. The incompetents in DC work for US. My opposition to this attempt by the administration to take over health care is based on many things, but primarily constitutional principal. Reform Medicaid?... alright, I guess, but don't purpose a massive over hall on a system that works well for 85% of Americans.

Can we get any non -yokels and non- crackers who aren't 125 pounds overweight to scream at these protests too?

I'm in my mid sixties and this health insurance thing puzzles me. I never bought health insurance until I was about 40 years old. I did buy a really high deductible policy when I was in my mid thirties. Why are young people worried about this? All that these national health plans will do is rape your pocketbook long before you need it.

Just imaging the entire health care system run like the VA!

  Don't be biased by my username, I am not against universal health care solely because I am a physician.  I do, however, think films like "Sicko" portray a socialized system (like that of England, Canada, France) with a bit too positive a light.  Don't blind yourself with the false notion that only my salary will suffer such a plan: think about your own well-being.  Our hospital system usually attends to people with alacrity, and only those that have hit rock-bottom will say otherwise.  With a naturally sickening wait time of a socialized hospital, it is hard to say that these folks would be treated better overseas. 

I think we should consider a mixed system--one that combines the best of socialized medical distribution with the premium medical practice (care, operations, diagnosis) we know.

it needs to be free for everyone, we shouldnt pay for our lives to be saved. doesnt everyone minus killers and such deserve a right to live? our lives shouldnt b placed in the hands of the government >.>

Not only scary but also sad that the wealthiest country on Earth can't provide some kind of health care coverage for all its citizens. You can thank the greedy doctors, drug companies, insurance carriers... and the politicians in their pockets for that.

one of my biggest concerns if affordable health care in the USA. we have not had full insurance for three years now. we could not afford almost $400.00 a month to say we even had insurance. that did pay for the big deductables on top of it. we worry about what will happen if one of us gets real sick. there is NOWay we could pay a huge bill. everyone in this country should have affordable health insurance, not just the privelaged. we are one of the 45 million who do not have insurance. something has to be done. this is not fair.it is sad to feel as if some are "more important" than others.but no in the USA health insurance is all about making a profit, instead of someone's life.this is scary.

We spend billions on stupid wars and raises for our politicians but we don't have affordable healthcare?!? geez, thanks.

America. The so called richest country!
Right. That is why myself and millions other can't afford healthcare. Illegals are getting better coverage than most americans.

Really, its about time to stop waving the flag and start a revolution.

Let's get the classic Democrat line, "We have 40 million Americans without Health Care coverage," out in the open. There are between 15 and 17 million Americans who make over 50,000 dollars per year or more that elect not to have coverage. There are over 11 million ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS included in this figure, who have no rights to our health care coverage. There are also well over 6 million Americans that are eligible for Government benefits that are either too lazy to apply or are too ignorant to realize they are eligible. So, take these numbers off and it dwindles that magical 40 million number wayyyyy down doesn't it folks!!! Health Care costs go up nearly 300 dollars per year for families due to the uninsured!!!

i think we should have free health care for everyone. italy has it, and look how they turned out

Health care should be a top priority. Our health care system is unique is many ways. On the one hand, we spend more per person on health care than any other country in the world, yet many Americans lack health care and don't receive necessary care. The system is grossly inefficient. Recent studies suggest that up to 20% of American workers lack health-care. Because these needs have not been met, over 40% of those who were uninsured were unable to see a doctor and more did not even have a doctor to begin with. It is clear that action is needed on health care; companies are finding it increasingly difficult to provide adequate private health care for their employees. A majority of corporate CFO's believe that action is needed on this issue, for such costs are becoming a major burden. The question is how and what? First we have to ask what we are facing here. The issue at hand is that costs are rapidly rising generally for both publicly and privately owned health care. Rising prices are not a result of inflation, but rather it is a response to new innovations. Simply put, medicine can do a lot more for us today than ever before. The problem is that our current health care system has not kept up with innovations in the marketplace. Lance is totally correct when he points out that the health care system needs genuine competition both to encourage innovation and to keep prices lower. The problem is not that we have a poor health care system, indeed the higher prices are indicative of new medical technologies that are being produced here and are beginning to be covered by traditional health care coverage. For example, Medicare now covers cardiac devices for those patients with heart trouble, now that research has shown that they are effective. However there are some problems nonetheless. It is very inefficient; why do we 70 percent more funds on health care than Canada yet we still have lower infant mortality and life expectancy rates than many Western nations? The bottom line is that many times it is the lower and middle classes that get shut out of the system. Many hospitals are going out of business because they receive a lot of patients in emergency wards who they treat but who cannot afford the treatment, thus the hospitals have to foot the bill. This is just one aspect of the problem. Effective reform means cutting reduplication costs, in other words, reducing the bureaucratic burden within the private health care system. The medical bureaucracy, which is privately owned, about 3 million people are employed not to provide health care, but rather to assess risk, rate premiums, analyze benefit packages, and pay out or refute claims. On the other side, doctors have to pay personnel just to deal with the insurance companies, who don't pay out that easily. In short, our current health care system is not at all competitive like private system should be. These companies don't compete by delivering care at lower costs; rather they compete on the basis of risk selection, or by turning away people who may have high health care costs. However the costs of providing these people health care don't just go away. If they can't pay or if the costs impoverish them, they are covered by public insurance. In essence we have a huge medical bureaucracy that accomplishes nothing. Resources spent by private insurers don't reduce costs; rather it passes on the costs to society at large. Ironically a system that would insure us all would cost a lot less than a system that only covers about 80 percent of us. Somebody has to still pay the costs of taking care of the sick; the challenge is trying to find a way to streamline such costs. It may require some intervention on the part of the public sector. The overall public cost of the system is becoming excessive for individuals, businesses and governments to totally shoulder on their own. It is possible that we might just be better off with a public health care system in the long term, even if that is not as ideal as it sounds.

This is the real problem. . .so dubya invents another 'false war' (social security) to distract you. Have you been counting what comes out of your pay?

I have been reading some of the other posts on this topic and there is one simple reason why Health Care costs so much in the USA. The reason is the uninsured, in my area for every four that does not have the means to pay there is one that is going be one who has to pay for five. If you start crunching numbers you will see that it can only get worst unless something is done about health coverage. I suppose you could say the goverment should provide health care for every one but I can bet my last dollar that taxes are going to go way up. You can regulate pricing and costs but when at least 25% of the population can't pay how do health care organizations stay in business.

The rich should not be looked after while the poor are left to die!

Except active military and veterans with service connected issues the Feds involvement in healt care is unconstitutional.

Jon the Man is right,...any advanced society would want to look after all its people universally. I don't understand why it is seen as any way negative. Provided all, even the unemployed, are charged something for its upkeep, (in their case a small sum deducted from any benefits) everyone has access to medical care when needed, which is the purpose of insurance. There are different levels of care in different countries, but in each case with a national health system at least it works when the proper parameters are applied. This is the only time I've disagreed with abichara..doctors decide if they will work with NHS patients for which they receive a sum from the Government. You can go to any doctor in your catchment area and see him. If you want to go private that's a different thing. If you have a national health service, it doesn't preclude you from going private if you want to. Medical health care is a service and should not be for profit.

Health care prices are increasing for two reasons: 1) As technology advances procedures are available to save the lives or prolong the lives of patients that never existed previously. As we get richer as a nation on a whole these procedures go from being experimental to routine. Example: I have in my lifetime had two reconstructive surgeries on both my knee and shoulder. These procedures were simply not available years ago but are now included in my health care coverage. 2) We have a third payer system that simply removes competition, demand pressures by individual rationing and deflationary pressures on price. The recent uninsured numbers released by the census department are misleading. Though there are more uninsured there are also more INSURED people as well. Studies show that 14 to 15 million people eligible for Medicade simply haven't filled out the paper work to become insured. Another 7 million uninsured live in households with a total income of 75k per year- hardly too poor to afford coverage. Furthermore a majority of the uncovered rest are young adults who make the choice (like I did all through my 20's) not to pay for insurance and risk being injured and having to pay out of pocket. You have the freedom to do things that aren't necessarily prudent but this does not make our system a failure. Contrarily, this country has by far the best health care in the world. More procedures are invented here to save lives than in any country worldwide. More drugs that prolong lives are created here than any other place on the globe. The increase in life expectancy for every ethnic group and all Americans on a whole reflect these successes. There always can be improvements but those will continue to be created by the private sector. The changes that need to be made are the ones that allow individuals to freely select their own coverage with private plans and individual accounts not government imposed regulations and hostile take overs of private business. Politicians and those with a hatred of the free market will always wish to manipulate data as recently released and annoint themselves the defender against the Great Satan big business when in reality it is big business (and small) along with free choice by the consumer that will continue to drive improvements in health care nothing else.******* kwhyman I would suggest that Ralphie is correct in one respect, that yes Protestant ethics have led to corporate profits (and yes I own and have read Max Weber's book)- BUT that's a GOOD thing. The pursuit of profit leads to better products and better healthcare. It takes over 200 million dollars in some cases in just research to launch one drug. Less than 10% of drugs that are researched with any ambition never make it to market. Yes Protestant Christianity has lead to increased profits- for our benefit!

While I can agree with Ralph's statistics about the rise in perscription costs, I do not agree with his generalization that Christianity is responsible for said increases. Greed and avarice are part of human nature, unfortunately, and people have used a myriad of excuses to justify such a way of thinking. Don't blame the whole lot of a group for the actions of some misguided members, Ralph....such a way of thinking is harmful in its own right.

Statistics can be misleading. While officially last year 44 million people went without any sort of health insurance, nearly 82 million Americans went without health insurance at some point during the last two years. So many people are in fact coming on and off health insurance because of rising costs and this is forcing them into a dangerous game of russian roulette with their own livelihoods. This begs the question, since we're the wealthiest country in the world, why don't we have universal healthcare? Because it's more inefficient? Doesn't look like it, developed countries with universal healthcare have higher life expectancies, better records of treating diseases and higher doctor to patient ratios. Because it's too expensive? Ironically the converse is true, GDP per capita spending is very noticeably lower in universal healthcare countries (US 4499$, UK 1747$, Canada 2058$, Japan 2908$, Australia 1698$ and the list goes on...). To top this all off, in countries with universal healthcare NO-ONE is uninsured, everyone has a right to treatment and freedom from the risk of financial ruin. Some things the public sector just does better, particularly in matters were the onus should be on providing a service rather then making a profit. The idea the private sector arbitrarily does everything better is simply a myth. It's a shame people have to suffer for a myth.

Best, most widely available health care on the planet.

Yea I want the government running healthcare. They are very eficient and can produce a level of service the free market could only dream about. Not a good idea at all. More clinics for indigent patients would be a good idea though.

More spending is again what most people like to say, but do not want to face the reality that society doesn't have a bottomless cookie jar of money. No one is against health care, education, fighting poverty, mom, hotdogs and apple pie. The reality is that society has a fixed amount of resources at even given point in time, so the question is how do we allocate these fixed resources. Health care costs what it costs, and the government can do little to control this, so the question becomes what are we willing to do without to have better health care, notwithstanding the ignorance of some who interpret the little government can do as handouts to insurance companies and HMOs. Moreover, as health care becomes more socialized, the less private your health related behavior becomes as the government has the duty to control its expenditure of public resources (ie no more smoking, drinking and eating fatty foods just because you want to and are willing to take the risk). The bottom line is that all these wonderful advancements in medicine are expensive and must be recouped from patients and that at some point it is economically wasteful to invest resources into the sick when those resources can, and sometimes must be invested elsewhere.

Hillary Clinton tried this in 1994. Failure.

I am inclined to concur with VirileVagabond's well-written post on this issue. We all want to ensure that those who cannot afford healthcare get it, but that is easier said than done. The reality of the fact is that our government is in a fiscal mess, and we are already having problems maintaining the solvency of Social Security and Medicare. The federal government IS already taking steps to ensure that low-income Americans have health insurance, through the Children's Health Insurance Program, Medicaid and other federal programs. The fact of the matter is that we simply cannot afford to fund a universal healthcare system. The establishment of such a system would have formidable consequences in the future. As the population grows, the program is going to cost more and more. We are already passing on our fiscal problems to future generations--- there is no need to increase the burden that me and my children will have to bear. The government can certainly help those who need it the most, but an all-out government-administered program is not the answer. Not only would it cost us billions of dollars every year, but such a program would place the government in control of your healthcare. In the long run, a government healthcare program would just be another HMO.

I'm not saying that universal health care should be provided by the government. But there should be a safety net in case of emergency. Many people do not get health care (part-time workers, temp workers, unemployed) and it's way too expensive to pay for it by yourself. Health care costs are becoming the #1 cause of bankruptcy in the U.S. Just imagine: you get laid off, your coverage runs out, and then something happens. You're ruined financially for life.

Health care is a political as well as medical issue, but poll after poll shows that the American people are really not concerned at all with health care. Most people already recieve good health care. Why are the Democrats making a big case against Bush with this? The American people do not give a damn.

First of all, any of you who happened to read what I wrote before should know that I wasn't serious. It's a long story, but I had to use a ridiculous argument for one of my classes at school. Anyway, I'm not overly thrilled with our health system. The US is not ranked in the top 20 health systems of the world, which is a problem since health care is an important issue. The nations whose health care is seen as superior to ours all have socialized medicine. However, if the US switched, it would cause massive problems at first. For example, newly trained doctors and residents would never be free from debt, and the US govt. would have to help finance medical school for everyone. I think the best way to handle health care is to have moderate government regulation of the pharmaceutical industries and insurance companies and to reform Medicare and Medicaid. Medicare and Medicaid themselves cause numerous problems for hospitals all over. And I hate to say it, but more tax dollars need to be spent on health care. The US is not heavily taxed at all. Europeans are taxed much more than us, but they also don't have to spend as much on healthcare as we do. I don't know if there really is a good way to reform health care, but it's a problem that definately needs to be fixed.

Health care is on a steady decline. It seems like health care insurance doesn't want to pay for anything these days. It is sad that our senior citizens are not getting the proper care that they should. Something has to be done.

To deny health care to those who cannot afford it is truely a benchmark of how messed up our priorities are. As we bomb the hell out of Iraq out of the "need to liberate the poor Iraqi's" we have children in this country who never see a doctor because their parents cannot afford it. If we are so compassionate that we feel the need to rescue every country from dictators, why can't we take care of our own people suffering here in the U.S.? Thousands of elderly and children die in the U.S. every year becaus they cannot afford astronomical health-care bills, yet we can spend up to 60 cents of every tax dollar on the military alone. My friend Noah, I'm sorry those pathetic senior citizens bother you, but I'll bet you would singing a different tune if you were in the hospital with a life-threatening illness and a $500,000 medical bill...I bet you would change your tune REAL FAST!!

definitely more important than gay rights, for example......